Bug: Dead links on page Python Distutils-SIG: Documentation

[quentinboudinel]

Describe the bug

Two links redirect to a 404 on page Python Distutils-SIG: Documentation.

To Reproduce

1. Got to Python Distutils-SIG: Documentation
2. Click on Installing Python Modules or Distributing Python Modules
3. Get 404 Not Found

Expected behavior

The link should get user to a page or there should be no link.

Browsers

Firefox

Operating System

Windows

[hugovk]

Thanks for the report, I've made a suggestion for a fix at python/psf-salt#518 (comment).

In the meantime, you can see the pages at:

• https://docs.python.org/3.11/install/index.html
• https://docs.python.org/3.11/distutils/index.html

But note that these and https://www.python.org/community/sigs/current/distutils-sig/doc/ are both out-of-date. I don't think this SIG is active any more.

[merwok]

I’m not sure about the formal status of the SIG, but as a community with a mailing list, distutils-sig is now the packaging subforum on python dicuss and is very active

[jenaarmaan]

Hi,

Thanks for the suggested replacement links earlier in the thread.

If this issue is still open, I can submit a small PR updating the broken links on the Distutils-SIG documentation page to the current docs.python.org equivalents (or removing them if preferred).

Please let me know if that approach works. Thanks!

[merwok]

Yes go ahead

[jenaarmaan]

Yes go ahead

Thanks for the confirmation!

I’ll work on a small PR to update the broken links on the Distutils-SIG documentation page to the appropriate docs.python.org equivalents (or remove them where they’re no longer relevant).

I’ll link the PR here once it’s ready.

[jenaarmaan]

Yes go ahead

Hi @merwok,

I started implementing the fix and ran into a quick clarification point.

I’m not able to locate the source file for
https://www.python.org/community/sigs/current/distutils-sig/doc/
within the pythondotorg repository. I searched under community/, pages/,
templates/, static/, and fixtures, but it looks like this page may be
legacy content managed outside this repo (possibly via psf-salt, as
mentioned earlier in the thread).

Could you please confirm:
• whether the fix should be made in python/psf-salt instead, or
• if there’s a preferred way to update or override these links from
within pythondotorg?

Once I know the correct place to apply the change, I’m happy to proceed
and open the PR right away. Thanks!

[merwok]

pythondotorg is a CMS, so I suspect this page is managed via its admin interface.
We’ll have to request edits from editors; I don’t know offhand how to find the list, but searching this tracker + the forum for similar requests should find it.

[hugovk]

I can edit.

What should we change it to?

Here's the current content:

<h1>Python Distutils-SIG: Documentation</h1>

    <h2>User Documents</h2>

    <p> Two documents have been written to cover the Distutils, and 
    are part of Python's standard documentation set:
    <ul>
      <li><cite><a href="http://docs.python.org/install/"
          >Installing Python Modules</a></cite>
          <p>
          This is for end-users, system administrators, and Python
          programmers who need to install third-party modules
          to their existing Python installation.  It focusses on
          using the Distutils, but also covers older ways of
          installing Python modules and extensions.
          </p>
      <li><cite><a href="http://docs.python.org/distutils/"
          >Distributing Python Modules</a></cite>
          <p>
          This is for module and extension developers who want to share
          their efforts with the world using the Distutils.  It covers
          writing the setup script and using it to create a source
          distribution and "built" (binary) distributions (thus, it's
          also useful for packagers -- people turning other developer's
          source distributions into built distributions for a particular
          platform).
          </p>
    </ul>
    </p>


    <h2>Planning, Requirements, and Design Documents</h2>

    <p>The Distutils did not spring magically into existence one day; a
    considerable amount of forethought was required, and some of it was
    even written down.  In roughly chronological order:
    <ul>
      <li><a href="ipc7_devday/">summary of the Developer's Day
          session</a> at IPC7 (the Seventh International Python
          Conference, November 1998)
      <li><a href="requirements/">requirements overview</a>
      <li><a href="tasks/">tasks and roles</a> involved in
          the Distutils
      <li><a href="interface/">proposed user interface</a>--mainly
          of historical interest now that the code exists and is
          documented in <cite><a href="http://docs.python.org/install/"
          >Installing Python Modules</a></cite>,
          but I can never throw anything away
      <li><a href="design/">proposed design</a>--also mainly of
          historical interest; superseded by the IPC8 paper (below) and, 
          of course, the actual code
    </ul>
    </p>


    <h2>IPC8 Paper/Presentation</h2>

    <p>A the Eighth International Python Conference (January 2000), I
    gave a talk on the Distutils and published a paper in the conference
    proceedings.  The paper is available as:
    <ul>
      <li><a href="/files/sigs/ipc8_paper.html">HTML</a>
      <li><a href="/files/sigs/ipc8_paper.pdf.gz">compressed PDF</a>
      <li><a href="/files/sigs/ipc8_paper.ps.gz">compressed PostScript</a>
    </ul>
    I updated the paper a bit and submitted it to the
    <a href="http://software-carpentry.codesourcery.com/">Software Carpentry</a>
    competition; you might want to read the
    <a href="/files/sigs/sc_submission.html">updated version of the paper</a>
    instead.
    </p>

    <p>You can also download the slides from my presentation.  I haven't
    figured out how to get Applixware to generate HTML from the slides
    (grumble), so for now you can download the slides for:
    <ul>
      <li><a href="/files/sigs/ipc8_talk.ag.gz">Applix Presents</a> (compressed)
      <li><a href="/files/sigs/ipc8_talk.ppt.gz">Microsoft PowerPoint</a> (compressed)
    </ul>

[tavallaie]

I think it should be something like this:

<h1>Python Distutils-SIG: Documentation</h1>

   <p><em>Originally authored by Gregory P. Ward.</em></p>

   <p><strong>⚠️ Deprecation Notice:</strong> The <code>distutils</code> package has been deprecated since Python 3.10
       and removed in Python 3.12 (see <a href="https://peps.python.org/pep-0632/">PEP 632 </a>). For modern
       Python packaging, please refer to the <a href="https://packaging.python.org/">Python Packaging User Guide
       </a> and tools like <code>pip</code>, <code>setuptools</code>, and <code>build</code>.</p>

   <p><strong>Link type key:</strong> [Legacy] = Python 3.11 or earlier docs
       • [Archived] = preserved via legacy.python.org or archive.org</p>

   <h2>User Documents</h2>

   <p>The following documents cover modern Python packaging practices:</p>
   <ul>
       <li>
           <cite><a href="https://packaging.python.org/tutorials/installing-packages/">Installing Python Packages
               </a></cite>
           <p>This guide is for end-users, system administrators, and Python programmers who need to install
               third-party packages. It covers using <code>pip</code> and modern installation methods.</p>
       </li>
       <li>
           <cite><a href="https://packaging.python.org/tutorials/packaging-projects/">Packaging Python Projects
               </a></cite>
           <p>This tutorial is for module and extension developers who want to distribute their packages. It covers
               writing setup configuration, creating source distributions, and building binary distributions using
               modern tools.</p>
       </li>
   </ul>

   <p><strong>Legacy Documentation (Python 3.11 and earlier):</strong></p>
   <p>For historical reference, the original distutils documentation is available for Python 3.11 (the last version
       with distutils):</p>
   <ul>
       <li><a href="https://docs.python.org/3.11/installing/index.html">Installing Python Modules (Python 3.11)
               [Legacy]</a></li>
       <li><a href="https://docs.python.org/3.11/distutils/index.html">Distributing Python Modules (Python 3.11)
               [Legacy]</a></li>
   </ul>

   <h2>Planning, Requirements, and Design Documents</h2>

   <p>The Distutils did not spring magically into existence one day; a considerable amount of forethought was required,
       and some of it was even written down by Gregory P. Ward. In roughly chronological order:</p>
   <ul>
       <li><a href="https://legacy.python.org/workshops/1998-11/devday.html">summary of the Developer's Day session
               [Archived]</a> at IPC7 (the Seventh International Python Conference, November 1998)</li>
       <li><s>requirements overview</s> <em>(archived/unavailable)</em></li>
       <li><s>tasks and roles</s> <em>(archived/unavailable)</em></li>
       <li><s>proposed user interface</s> <em>(archived/unavailable; legacy docs at <a
                   href="https://docs.python.org/3.11/distutils/index.html">Python 3.11 [Legacy]</a>)</em></li>
       <li><s>proposed design</s> <em>(archived/unavailable; superseded by the IPC8 paper below)</em></li>
   </ul>

   <h2>IPC8 Paper/Presentation</h2>

   <p>At the Eighth International Python Conference (January 2000), Gregory P. Ward gave a talk on the Distutils and
       published a paper in the conference proceedings. The paper is available as:</p>
   <ul>
       <li><a href="https://legacy.python.org/files/sigs/ipc8_paper.html">HTML [Archived]</a></li>
       <li><a href="https://legacy.python.org/files/sigs/ipc8_paper.pdf.gz">compressed PDF [Archived]</a></li>
       <li><a href="https://legacy.python.org/files/sigs/ipc8_paper.ps.gz">compressed PostScript [Archived]</a></li>
   </ul>

   <p>He updated the paper a bit and submitted it to the <a
           href="https://web.archive.org/web/20010720215854/http://software-carpentry.codesourcery.com/">Software
           Carpentry [Archived]</a> competition; you might want to read the <a
           href="https://legacy.python.org/files/sigs/sc_submission.html">updated version of the paper [Archived]</a>
       instead.</p>

   <p>You can also download the slides from his presentation. Unfortunately, Applixware HTML export was not available
       at the time, so for now you can download the slides for:</p>
   <ul>
       <li><a href="https://legacy.python.org/files/sigs/ipc8_talk.ag.gz">Applix Presents [Archived]</a> (compressed)
       </li>
       <li><a href="https://legacy.python.org/files/sigs/ipc8_talk.ppt.gz">Microsoft PowerPoint [Archived]</a>
           (compressed)</li>
   </ul>

   <hr>

I am not an expert in pythondotorg CMS, so I only focused on gathering the correct materials and links.
Also, while working on this issue, I found that all documents from Python 3.5 installing index need to be updated.

Currently, they all point to Python 3.4 and miss important information. For example, in Python 3.10 installing index and later versions, we do not mention PEP 632 – Deprecate distutils module. Furthermore, from Python 3.12 onwards, we are missing the reference to PEP 704 – Require virtual environments by default for package installers

[merwok]

We won’t update docs for out-of-life versions.
Also they’re not incorrect: Python 3.5 contains distutils.

PEP 704 is withdrawn.

[tavallaie]

I think in
https://docs.python.org/3.10/installing/index.html
https://docs.python.org/3.11/installing/index.html
https://docs.python.org/3.12/installing/index.html
distutils mentioned

[merwok]

If a change is needed, please review tickets on the python/cpython tracker and add comments (or create a new one) there.